Damn. By these metrics I was destined to live to at least 200 years old but I foolishly smoked from age 18 to 30, as well as having at least two drinks per week on average. For the following 15 years I would have had on average 7-10 drinks per week. Then, as best I can recall, I drank on average six bottles of wine (mostly reds) plus an average 7 nips of single malt scotch each week from age 45 to age 65 when I lost the taste for alcohol and now only drink at Christmas and a couple of other occasions each year. It’s beyond me to calculate the years ‘lost’ (maybe a side effect?) but as I head towards 72 in reasonable health for my age I’m not sure I’d want to add another 100+ years to whatever the expiration date on my birth certificate is. But thanks for explaining the research.
I imagine a lot of people feel the same way. A friend of mine told me yesterday that he was also somewhat annoyed by these calculations, because friends of his have stopped drinking entirely because their doctors have told them that any alcohol shortens lifespan. But alcohol is also a social proposition, if done properly. So as any reasonable expert (which I am not, by the way) will tell you, live your life and enjoy it and make informed choices that you can live with, and that's all you can really do.
This is the best explanation that I have read on the subject. My first thought was of my mom who passed from cancer (first breast then bone) at age 67. She had a beer every afternoon that I can remember plus social drinking on the weekend. I spent most of my life worried that I would get breast cancer and my sisters and I even got genetic testing to see if we had the breast cancer gene. But nothing. I now believe it was the alcohol. Her life was way too short, her treatment (at the time) was horribly hard on her. Really her life ended at 56 when she was diagnosed. I love the social connection and wine with food, etc. But seriously rethinking my drinking rituals.
Marianne, thanks for posting this. I was just saying over the weekend that since I began writing about "aging with alcohol," I've certainly been drinking a lot less of it. I guess that's one benefit of producing AGING with STRENGTH: you can't help but continue thinking about either the good or not so good impact of the behaviors you research and explore.
I'm sorry to hear about your mom's ordeal toward the end of her life. My grandmother had a similar decade-long descent into cancer that really changed her life for the worse. She didn't deserved that; obviously, no one does.
I'm drinking far less than I did just eight weeks ago, and I imagine that trend is going to continue.
Understood. Maybe I'm ignorant but I tend to view a beer, especially with food, more benignly than, say, whiskey on ice after dinner. But also, since I allowed my household to run out of beer and whiskey, I've been drinking neither, kind of similar to how I don't eat chips when I don't buy them and put them in the pantry. What a concept!
There have been good studies which showed all-cause and CV mortality is higher in abstainers and heavy drinkers…..the J- (or U-) shaped curve. Some studies also accounted for the sick quitters. Granted, the best outcomes and evidence comes from studies that separate out wine consumption in otherwise healthy individuals that were likely: more educated, didn’t smoke, weren’t overweight/obese, and ate a heathy diet with wine. Drinking outside of meal time isn’t something people should do. Having a healthy gut (through mostly diet) and drinking coffee are some covariates which predict a better outcome in alcohol consumers. It’s all about the covariates in these shitty models that come up with risk predictions. Once you start stacking covariates that the researchers say are “accounted for”, all bets are off. Some people shouldn’t drink at all. I’ve read hundreds of papers, for and against alcohol consumption, and the advice that distills out is simple: follow the Mediterranean diet and drink mostly wine…………and then moderate drinking is either null or protective.
Thanks for this. So, stick to a Med diet, drink mostly wine and, I presume you also mean (as you say higher up in your comment) only with food, correct?
If one likes wine, this makes sense. But the studies showing some (vascular, I think) benefits to moderate drinking were from a few/several years ago, no? They've received a harsher second look, as I understand, from researchers who pointed out the often poor clinical controls of those studies. I haven't read hundreds of studies. But it seems not unreasonable, as I infer you believe, to believe that these studies only add up to informed suggestions, not strict instructions, on how to think about alcohol.
Like you said, for most people individual circumstances make blanket rules unwise. I think it's still worth considering impact on lifespan. Even for wine with food. Sláinte
I left out the body weight issue. With the huge increase in obesity, MASLD or MASH is a serious confounder since the likelihood of MASLD/MASH is much higher and alcohol will likely make it much worse at lower doses. Again, people who are “otherwise healthy” have fewer bad outcomes than people who are unhealthy or have bad habits
note to readers: If you're like me and don't know what MASLD/MASH refers to, it's inflammation of your liver caused by excess fat cells in it. https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/22988-nonalcoholic-steatohepatitis. MASH is the advanced stage of MASLD. It means that your condition is causing inflammation and damaging your liver — despite low alcohol use.
Damn. By these metrics I was destined to live to at least 200 years old but I foolishly smoked from age 18 to 30, as well as having at least two drinks per week on average. For the following 15 years I would have had on average 7-10 drinks per week. Then, as best I can recall, I drank on average six bottles of wine (mostly reds) plus an average 7 nips of single malt scotch each week from age 45 to age 65 when I lost the taste for alcohol and now only drink at Christmas and a couple of other occasions each year. It’s beyond me to calculate the years ‘lost’ (maybe a side effect?) but as I head towards 72 in reasonable health for my age I’m not sure I’d want to add another 100+ years to whatever the expiration date on my birth certificate is. But thanks for explaining the research.
I imagine a lot of people feel the same way. A friend of mine told me yesterday that he was also somewhat annoyed by these calculations, because friends of his have stopped drinking entirely because their doctors have told them that any alcohol shortens lifespan. But alcohol is also a social proposition, if done properly. So as any reasonable expert (which I am not, by the way) will tell you, live your life and enjoy it and make informed choices that you can live with, and that's all you can really do.
Sobering…
Greatly!
This is the best explanation that I have read on the subject. My first thought was of my mom who passed from cancer (first breast then bone) at age 67. She had a beer every afternoon that I can remember plus social drinking on the weekend. I spent most of my life worried that I would get breast cancer and my sisters and I even got genetic testing to see if we had the breast cancer gene. But nothing. I now believe it was the alcohol. Her life was way too short, her treatment (at the time) was horribly hard on her. Really her life ended at 56 when she was diagnosed. I love the social connection and wine with food, etc. But seriously rethinking my drinking rituals.
Marianne, thanks for posting this. I was just saying over the weekend that since I began writing about "aging with alcohol," I've certainly been drinking a lot less of it. I guess that's one benefit of producing AGING with STRENGTH: you can't help but continue thinking about either the good or not so good impact of the behaviors you research and explore.
I'm sorry to hear about your mom's ordeal toward the end of her life. My grandmother had a similar decade-long descent into cancer that really changed her life for the worse. She didn't deserved that; obviously, no one does.
I'm drinking far less than I did just eight weeks ago, and I imagine that trend is going to continue.
Yes.
Interesting and disturbing.
Pete, I'm curious what you found interesting and disturbing. There's a lot there....(only if you care to share)
Hey Paul - Interesting because of the work that went into the calculations. Disturbing because I enjoy beer.
Understood. Maybe I'm ignorant but I tend to view a beer, especially with food, more benignly than, say, whiskey on ice after dinner. But also, since I allowed my household to run out of beer and whiskey, I've been drinking neither, kind of similar to how I don't eat chips when I don't buy them and put them in the pantry. What a concept!
Uh uh, the "experts" are at it again. Who cares what old people do?! Quality of life over quantity!
Old people's kids. And their companions. And their bowling partners. That's who.
Oh no, Paul! Could it be you're a pompous humorless a%%?? Tell me it ain't so!
Yes, could be! Thank you for spelling ass with percentage symbols. Internet decorum is not dead.
Rubbish. True moderate or light drinking, especially red wine, lengthens lifespan and healthspan.
Interesting. What specific sources inform this POV? Please share, so I can figure out what to include in my updates.
There have been good studies which showed all-cause and CV mortality is higher in abstainers and heavy drinkers…..the J- (or U-) shaped curve. Some studies also accounted for the sick quitters. Granted, the best outcomes and evidence comes from studies that separate out wine consumption in otherwise healthy individuals that were likely: more educated, didn’t smoke, weren’t overweight/obese, and ate a heathy diet with wine. Drinking outside of meal time isn’t something people should do. Having a healthy gut (through mostly diet) and drinking coffee are some covariates which predict a better outcome in alcohol consumers. It’s all about the covariates in these shitty models that come up with risk predictions. Once you start stacking covariates that the researchers say are “accounted for”, all bets are off. Some people shouldn’t drink at all. I’ve read hundreds of papers, for and against alcohol consumption, and the advice that distills out is simple: follow the Mediterranean diet and drink mostly wine…………and then moderate drinking is either null or protective.
Thanks for this. So, stick to a Med diet, drink mostly wine and, I presume you also mean (as you say higher up in your comment) only with food, correct?
If one likes wine, this makes sense. But the studies showing some (vascular, I think) benefits to moderate drinking were from a few/several years ago, no? They've received a harsher second look, as I understand, from researchers who pointed out the often poor clinical controls of those studies. I haven't read hundreds of studies. But it seems not unreasonable, as I infer you believe, to believe that these studies only add up to informed suggestions, not strict instructions, on how to think about alcohol.
Like you said, for most people individual circumstances make blanket rules unwise. I think it's still worth considering impact on lifespan. Even for wine with food. Sláinte
I left out the body weight issue. With the huge increase in obesity, MASLD or MASH is a serious confounder since the likelihood of MASLD/MASH is much higher and alcohol will likely make it much worse at lower doses. Again, people who are “otherwise healthy” have fewer bad outcomes than people who are unhealthy or have bad habits
note to readers: If you're like me and don't know what MASLD/MASH refers to, it's inflammation of your liver caused by excess fat cells in it. https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/22988-nonalcoholic-steatohepatitis. MASH is the advanced stage of MASLD. It means that your condition is causing inflammation and damaging your liver — despite low alcohol use.